by Marco Aquino
In this interview, band leader and multi-instrumentalist Gerry Gibbs reflects on his early years of musical performances at Carmens de la Calle. The son of famed vibraphonist Terry Gibbs, Gerry revitalized San Antonio’s jazz scene by helping to establish Trinity University’s KRTU 91.7 as a jazz music station and by bringing together some of the finest jazz musicians in Texas for his Thrasher Big Band project. Here, Gerry discusses his time as part of Carmens’ resident jazz band, the notable acts who have performed at Carmens and the quality of jazz musicians in San Antonio.
Carmens first opened to the public in 2000. How do you recall that time in your life as one of the first musicians to perform at Carmens?
I was there right from the beginning. I helped start it and set it up and then Paula Sullivan continued it after I left San Antonio. I guess I had been there about 5 years or so. At first, it started that I would play on Thursday nights. We would have a jazz night and it turned into a big thing. Eventually, I started bringing all my New York musician friends: Larry Coryell, Randy Brecker, Dewey Redman, Sam Rivers, John Abercrombie, Ravi Coltrane, Tom Herrall, Mike Stern … so many great musicians. I would bring them out and they would play with the local rhythm section which, unfortunately, none of those guys are here anymore. They’ve all moved to Los Angeles or some other places. But we basically brought all these musicians in and we would put on all these special concerts. At that time, we would have a lot of workshops. After the cafe would close, we would turn it into a big band rehearsal, all sorts of things. It was never-ending. We would put on special private shows. Wynton Marsalis came and did 3 of those shows. So there were a lot of really exciting things. What everyone would tell me is that this was basically a first for San Antonio to have something like that. After I left San Antonio it just continued.
Was there a lack of venues to perform at during that time?
For what I was doing, there were probably no venues. Luna hadn’t opened up yet. We were playing a lot of different kinds of jazz, lots of experimental jazz. The way the room was set up, Paula and I, we decided it was going to be a listening room. It wasn’t going to be a room where the music would be incidental or be background music. Everything was focused on the show. You would go and eat your food and see a show. To be honest with you, I don’t know that anyone is doing that now.
At the time, did you feel you were part of something special performing in that small space at Carmen’s original location ?
Well, it was a small space but it wasn’t really a small space compared to a lot of jazz clubs. There are a lot of jazz clubs that can only hold 65 or 70 people. We created it to be like a New York jazz club.
Any particular memory that stands out over the past 25 years?
They were all great. There were so many people that came and played, some more than once. It was our room so we could do what we wanted. It was a room where we were gonna have jazz, not like r&b music that a lot of times gets passed off as jazz. We were gonna have Latin jazz, big band jazz, avant-garde jazz, Latin fusion jazz … I even built a recording studio at Carmens so we were recording all the time. The label that I’ve been with the last 17 years is interested in putting out a “Live at Carmens” record with all the people that I just mentioned. I had a studio in there so I was always in there after-hours. We recorded lots of people there from New York and abroad.
In the walk-in refrigerator in the back?
Yes, the walk-in refrigerator! We didn’t use it as a refrigerator. It wasn’t necessary. It was huge so we ran a snake out of there to the main room with all the mics and everything. The walk-in became a recording studio with all the gear and then we’d use it to store drums.
It was a very exciting thing because there was nothing like Carmens in San Antonio. Even though it was my thing, I wanted to have every great musician in San Antonio be a part of it. Carmens was a place where not only did you play, but you could go there to rehearse as well. We could play as loud and wild and out of control as we wanted. Try that anywhere else in San Antonio. It ain’t gonna happen! And I think that was very refreshing because the room would be packed all the time and people would just be focusing on the music. Carmens was a tapas restaurant, but it was also a jazz club, a flamenco club and also kind of like a cultural center in a way. It was really incredible.
As far as jazz, I started at a radio station with a guy named Ben Donnelly. KRTU was a classical station, no jazz. I became friends with Ben Donnelly and started running the station and we turned it into a jazz station. KRTU and Carmen’s were really close because nobody was reaching out to KRTU and being involved with it like Paula was. It became a thing which really helped to bring the crowd in. There were over a hundred different jazz musicians that played at Carmens while I was there, and not to mention the out of town acts that I would bring in.
What would you say is Carmen’s place in San Antonio jazz history?
In the last 25 years there has not been anything like it. I mean, Luna is an amazing club, the big band plays there, but it’s a music club that has everything from rock, pop, jazz, r&b … That’s a very important role but what Paula does is different. Where are you gonna go to pay a small cover and the music isn’t background music? Not to mention, there has never been a jazz club in San Antonio that has probably brought in 20 or 30 international acts on a regular basis.
You’ve been credited as someone who helped revive the jazz scene in SA back in the early 2000s. What do you think is necessary for a community of musicians to thrive?
The one thing that I always said when I first started my project is that I was searching for the finest musicians I could get from different circles. I was interested in grabbing 7or 8 different musicians from 7 or 8 different circles to play in my projects. For me, it was always a dead-end to be part of any one circle. I wanted to be a part of 20 circles. I was always searching for musicians in San Antonio and Austin. Half of my big band was made of musicians from Austin. They would car pool and they would come every wednesday like clockwork. I never had to worry that somebody wouldn’t show up. Everybody was really into it. Sometimes I see certain guys and I’ll say, “I don’t understand why you two or you three aren’t playing together. Get out of your little circles!”
There are so many incredible musicians that play here. I remember I got saxophonist Rene Saenz to play with Randy Brecker. The first thing Randy said was, “Man, I had no idea that there was someone in San Antonio that could play like that!” Rene was someone that Randy could take out on the road if he wanted to.
There are alot of great musicians here. Unfortunately, you can’t just go into a jazz venue and say, “Hey! We want to perform here and we want the people to actually listen to us!” That’s really the venue’s decision. And that’s where Paula really took a chance when she first started this. You have to have a venue that has that kind of vision. Then, the musicians had to want to be a part of it and build something San Antonio didn’t have before.
Outside of the music, is there anything in San Antonio that really stands out to you?
One of my closest friends who passed away, he was a great drummer that used to play with Chet Baker. He would come spend a month with me every year. He said something once, “You know, in America there are only a few places that are really unique.” The thing that I love about San Antonio is that it seemed more culturally connected. There is so much Spanish influence here which makes it one of the only cities in America that has that. I love it out here… For me, there is no more beautiful place than San Antonio and the Hill Country.